Soviet-Turkish War?

dmz23

In summer 1945 the Soviet Union began to exert pressure on Turkey,including demanding the return of the districts of Kars and Ardahan to Armenia and Georgia. But the real reason for this was Stalins long-standing strategic demand to control the black sea straits. The Turkish government consistantly rejected Soviet demands for control of the Black sea straits. Stalin thought that the Turkish government was a hostile regime. He believed that securing the straits was vital for the security of the Soviet Union. Stalin tried to rattle a few sabres on the Soviet-Turkish border as part of his pressure tactics on Ankara. Soviet-Turkish conflict seemed likely. But the crisis petered out in OTL,partly because Soviet attention began to focus on the U.S and the emerging Cold war. WI the Soviets had got involved in a war with Turkey in late 1945 or early 1946 over control of the straits? How would the war develop? How would the U.S and UK react?
Any thoughts?
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
dmz23 said:
In summer 1945 the Soviet Union began to exert pressure on Turkey,including demanding the return of the districts of Kars and Ardahan to Armenia and Georgia. But the real reason for this was Stalins long-standing strategic demand to control the black sea straits. The Turkish government consistantly rejected Soviet demands for control of the Black sea straits. Stalin thought that the Turkish government was a hostile regime. He believed that securing the straits was vital for the security of the Soviet Union. Stalin tried to rattle a few sabres on the Soviet-Turkish border as part of his pressure tactics on Ankara. Soviet-Turkish conflict seemed likely. But the crisis petered out in OTL,partly because Soviet attention began to focus on the U.S and the emerging Cold war. WI the Soviets had got involved in a war with Turkey in late 1945 or early 1946 over control of the straits? How would the war develop? How would the U.S and UK react?
Any thoughts?
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I don't think the Soviets had the "ooomph" in 1945 to launch another war with the possibility of bringing in the US and Britain, but in a one-on-one, Turkey certainly wouldn't last long against the massive and experienced Red Army.
 

dmz23

Yeah,I think it may be too soon after WW2. But,the cold war was only beginning and many still saw the Soviet Union as an ally. Perhaps,Stalin could have been encouraged by this and the prospect of an easy victory over the Turkish military. No one wanted another general war in late 1945 or early 1946,so the prospect of British or American intervention seems remote. A brief firefight along the Soviet-Turkish border could have given Stalin the pretext to invade,I guess.
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
dmz23 said:
Yeah,I think it may be too soon after WW2. But,the cold war was only beginning and many still saw the Soviet Union as an ally. Perhaps,Stalin could have been encouraged by this and the prospect of an easy victory over the Turkish military. No one wanted another general war in late 1945 or early 1946,so the prospect of British or American intervention seems remote. A brief firefight along the Soviet-Turkish border could have given Stalin the pretext to invade,I guess.
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I doubt it would be an easy victory, and maybe not one at all - Russia's military can't be used to full effect in this theater due to terrain and logistical limitations, and Russia is pretty tired... would the people of the USSR be up for an unprovoked fight after what they've just been through?
 

Faeelin

Banned
Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
I doubt it would be an easy victory, and maybe not one at all - Russia's military can't be used to full effect in this theater due to terrain and logistical limitations, and Russia is pretty tired... would the people of the USSR be up for an unprovoked fight after what they've just been through?
Click to expand...

You just changed your mind in what, an hour?
 

Calgacus

Abdul Hadi Pasha said:
I doubt it would be an easy victory, and maybe not one at all - Russia's military can't be used to full effect in this theater due to terrain and logistical limitations, and Russia is pretty tired... would the people of the USSR be up for an unprovoked fight after what they've just been through?
Click to expand...

Wasn't the Turkish army in a pretty poor state at the time? I seem to remember this coming up in discussions of potential Turkish involvement in WW2...
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
Faeelin said:
You just changed your mind in what, an hour?
Click to expand...

It would be a hard fight but wouldn't last long if the Soviets have the will to pursue it and nobody intervenes. Istanbul is indefensible, but Anatolia is tougher, and a victory would still see long trouble with for the occupation.
 

Abdul Hadi Pasha

Banned
Calgacus said:
Wasn't the Turkish army in a pretty poor state at the time? I seem to remember this coming up in discussions of potential Turkish involvement in WW2...
Click to expand...

In 1939, but a bit less so after six years of preparation. In any case, my point is that in 1945 I think it would be hard to marshall a lot of enthusiasm in the USSR to invade a country for no reason, while the Allies are in a good position to intervene and could probably get together the popular will to do so.
 

ljofa

Greece is in the middle of a civil war which the British and then Americans are busy fighting with the pro-democracy forces as per the Yalta agreement. With Allied troops in the area as well as the big British base on Cyprus, would Stalin really risk it?

But let's say he does. I think the smart thing for the Turks to do is make contact with anti-soviet forces in the region and get them to batter the Baku oil-fields. Much of this terrain is mountainous and excellent for partisan, irregular warfare. The USA might give Turket an a-bomb or two just in case.
 

Prinz Richard Eugen

Turkey had been desired by the Russian (Soviet) state for over a century. The Straits were the immediate prize, but by the end of WWII a route to the oil of the Middle East ran right through Turkey. There is no way the US and the UK could allow a Soviet presence here without a fight. And how would you limit the fight to Turkey alone? It would quickly spread to Europe. Because of this possibility, Stalin would not start a war here.
 
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